STOP SPORTS INJURIES: How to Keep High School Athletes Healthy w/ Dr. Taylor Premer, DC

[0:00] High school sports are supposed to build confidence, character, and maybe a decent highlight reel. But between endless tournaments, bad recovery habits, and year-round competition, too many young athletes are building chronic pain instead. Yeah. From sprains to stress fractures, we’re seeing kids train like pros before their bodies are even done growing. Today, we’re talking with Dr. Taylor Primer, a sports chiropractor who spent years on the sidelines helping athletes move better, recover smarter, and actually enjoy the game again. Okay, so whether you’re a parent, a coach, or a

[0:31] former teen athlete with permanent turf toe, this one’s for you. This is the PTCH. What happens when a chiropractor and a physical therapist get together to make a health and wellness podcast? Chiropractors and physical therapists don’t like each other. Oh, think again. I’m Dr. Kathy Lynch, physical therapist who likes to help people move and get stronger. I’m Dr. Jason Young, an evidence-based chiropractor who uses humor just as much as adjustments to help people get better. Welcome to the PTCH Podcast. Remember, there’s no I in PTCH.

[1:02] Jason: All right, everybody. We are back to the PTCH Podcast. And you know what it means when we have these headphones on? It means that we got a — we got a guest, a call-in guest.

Kathy: Yes. From afar.

Jason: I know. It really feels like we get to play podcast whenever we got the headphones on. So, gear on.

Kathy: Yeah. I mean, like, no. I was going to compare us to Howard Stern, but we’re — no, we’re better than that. Yeah. We’re good people. We’re really good people. So, not Howard’s —

Jason: And this is PG right here.

Kathy: It’s — yeah, it is. It is. And you

[1:33] know, as always, this is the part where we talk about how the show’s killing it. Show’s still killing it. So, totally like and subscribe. Like, if this is your first time listening to us, just go ahead and hit the like button because otherwise you’re going to be like, why did I wait so long?

Kathy: Why?

Jason: Why? Right. Okay, fine. I’ll subscribe. Okay.

Kathy: Well, let’s just jump right into it. We have a guest today. Our guest is Dr. Taylor Primer, who’s the founder of Premier Health and Performance. He’s a chiropractor with significant experience working with high school, collegiate, and professional athletes, helping them

[2:04] to stay healthy and to perform at their best. Premier Health and Performance is in Lincoln, Nebraska, which is right in the middle of the country. So, everybody can get there, right? If you’re listening to this, you should go to Premier Health and Performance in Lincoln, Nebraska. And that’s where Taylor’s joining us from today. Dr. Taylor Primer, can you hear us?

Taylor: I can. What’s up, guys?

Kathy: Well, we’re so glad to have you here with us today. You know, fun fact about Taylor. Yeah. And that is

[2:34] that his wife’s name

Jason: is Taylor.

Kathy: Taylor.

Jason: Yes. Taylor and Taylor.

Kathy: Better Taylor is at home right now.

Taylor: Oh, okay.

Jason: All right. We’ll have her on a second time.

Kathy: Yeah, we’ll have her on next time. So, but yeah, Taylor, thanks so much for being here with us. You doing good today?

Taylor: I’m doing great. Yeah, I’m excited to be on the podcast. Been a listener for a while. So, I appreciate you guys inviting me. Good to see your face again, Jason. We just saw each other not too long ago.

Jason: Yeah. Up in Portland, Taylor was up presenting at the University of Western

[3:05] States, also known as the Harvard of Chiropractic.

Taylor: I’ve heard that from someone else before.

Jason: I’m sure he would disagree because you went to — did you go to Cleveland?

Taylor: Cleveland.

Jason: Cleveland. All right.

Taylor: In Kansas City. Yes.

Jason: Is that the Yale of chiropractic school?

Taylor: Yes. It’s definitely — I was going to say something mean, but Taylor’s actually smarter than I am, so it would really be dumb to be like, “It’s the community college of chiropractic.”

Kathy: Community college is great. Don’t knock it.

Jason: Yeah. You know what’s fun is — so, I argue too much online

[3:38] about chiropractic. And the thing people say, “Name me one public university that has a chiropractic school.” And you know what? University of Pittsburgh just opened one up. So,

Kathy: there you go. Bam. Take that.

Jason: And Troy University is opening one, too. And so it’s like boom, there forever goes that thing. Yeah. It’s kind of fun the silence that happens after you actually rattle one off. So,

[4:10] but yeah. So, Taylor, the thing that’s special about Taylor is — I said in here — significant experience working with high school and collegiate athletes and even pros, too, right?

Taylor: Yeah, that’s right.

Jason: Yeah. So, you were practicing in St. Louis, that area, and so you’ve done some work with the St. Louis Cardinals,

Taylor: secondhand. Yeah. A lot of my experience with the professional athletes is following around my mentor, Brett Winchester. Yes. He was the chiropractor for the Cardinals for five, six years, something like that. But then also we had a little

[4:41] continuing education company where we’d travel the world to teach and sometimes there’d be some pros that would be in the area that could use our services. And so yeah, I got to meet and work on some pretty amazing people and things like that. But I will say —

Jason: give us all their names. We don’t do HIPAA injuries. But I will say — I don’t love working with that population, to be completely honest with you. Like, I would take a high school athlete any day over a college athlete or a professional. And the reason I’m

[5:12] so passionate about it is because they’re excited to be there. They’re excited to feel better and they want to perform, which I think is going to be one of the topics we talk about today, is that they’re so excited to get back on the field, the court, whatever it might be, that sometimes the health standards get very low with them. And so that’s what I’m passionate about — raising the level of not only education but also treatment that these high school kids receive. Because I was a kid, you know, growing up in a tiny little town in Nebraska. I had 30 kids in my graduating class and I was plagued with injuries and had no help. And so

[5:43] that was — that’s why I’m kind of so passionate about this: to help kids like me to not only get back on the field but maybe perform a little bit better. Kathy: Love it. And that’s kind of the reverse of what everybody thinks the trajectory is. Jason: Everybody wants to work with professional athletes. Kathy: Oh yeah, I only work with pros. Yeah, just pros. Jason: I get questions about once a week from a chiropractor or PT or strength coach, and that’s always what they say is, “Well, how do I work with professionals?” And my answer is the same every single time: you’ve got to start with the person in

[6:13] front of you. So if you want to treat baseball players, then you better be at every single little league tournament. You better be marketing to the little leaguers, because if you don’t understand how to work with a little leaguer, it’s really hard to work with a hundred-million-dollar pitcher that’s in front of you. And there is a very big difference. The treatment is usually about the same, but it’s a big difference just mentally when it comes to those two populations. And so all you can do is just treat the people in front of you, and if your number gets called, you’ve got to be ready to roll. Kathy: Yeah. Jason: Yeah. Those pros, they’re very particular.

[6:43] About their body. And they usually have five or six different people working on them, too. So it’s hard to get your message across. Yes, it’s a tough crowd. And I don’t think pros like evidence-based care. No. They’re always the ones asking you to do something really weird. They are. They’re willing to try anything. Yeah. Hey, how’s the evidence for rubbing this crystal? It’s terrible. Let’s do it. Let’s go. Let’s do it. I’ll give you extra. That’s right. That’s right. Do you want to ask your patented question? Your main question that you

[7:14] like to ask people? He kind of covered it all. Yeah. Usually it’s how did you get into this? Yeah. Well, I can go a little bit further if you want. I knew there was — so I was — yeah, I could — you can wind me up and I’ll talk for hours. Just give me the cutoff if you need to. So I was a kid that was plagued — I was plagued with stress injuries and all these other weird things. Osgood-Schlatter’s and Achilles tendinopathy and heel pain and back pain

[7:45] throughout my whole career where I was playing every sport imaginable. I was wrestling, I played football, I golfed, I ran track, I did all those things. And I could never figure out what was going on. We had a chiropractor in our area who was a good chiropractor, but didn’t have the tools to really dive in deep and to figure things out. And it wasn’t until I got to chiropractic school and I found some amazing people around me that I started to understand what happened to my own body. And a lot of it for me kind of stemmed from nutritional deficiencies. And so not only was I positive

[8:17] for celiac disease, which means I have a huge gluten sensitivity or gluten allergy, but I also have what’s called hereditary hemochromatosis and some other autoimmune issues that were underlying but were perpetuating my musculoskeletal issues. And so that was one of the things — once I started to figure these things out, it was just light bulb after light bulb after light bulb. And some of those same things that I saw in myself, I see in the athletes that are in front of me. And so we’re able to diagnose some crazy things. I think when Jason was there, we talked about a case of a kid that had hip pain that had

[8:48] idiopathic RA — rheumatoid arthritis. And so, you know, little things like that: if you’re really good at what you do — and it doesn’t matter if you’re a chiropractor, a PT, an ATC, a massage therapist — if you’re paying attention and really diving into what the patient’s telling you and then what you’re finding in the body, you can uncover some amazing things, and then you do look like a witch doctor. That was one of my nicknames — literally the witch doctor at one of the local high schools — because I was able to get kids back on the field and

[9:18] also just find some crazy diagnoses and things. And not that you ever want to find them, but if you can find those in high school athletes, then my goodness, their life is so much better because now you can make the changes necessary to live a long, healthy life. So Kathy: yeah, what’s your formula? You must have a process that you go through with these high school athletes. Guest: Yeah. So my process is really rooted in assessment. And I think that this is the big missing link when it comes to — no matter what practitioner we’re talking about, orthopedic surgeon, primary care, chiropractor, PT — the assessment

[9:48] is what drives everything. And so being able to be succinct in your assessment to figure out the two things I’m always looking for: if I’m working on a sideline and there’s an injury, I’m always asking, “Okay, is this something threatening?” Meaning, is this major ligament damage? Do they have a concussion? Do they have a broken bone? Or is this just a little bump and bruise that we’re able to kind of get them back from? And so if you can decipher those two things, those are two very different cascades of events

[10:18] that need to happen. And so my process is just that — ruling out red flags, ruling out all the scary things, ruling out the bad stuff. And then if it’s not any of that, well then I’m just a gambler. I’m just going to push my chips in, knowing the assessment is clean, the athlete, the patient is doing well — then yeah, we can do some things to try to get you back on the field as long as you’re safe and healthy, and then the rest is history. And so one of the things I always say, especially when I’m talking to other providers, is you never get a name in your community by resting people.

[10:48] Jason: Even though rest is important in situations, but, you know, you get a name and a calling, if you will, or people, you know, knocking down your door if you’re able to do things that other people can’t. And so much of that is rooted in the assessment. You know, I can’t tell you how many times a kid would come to me in boots and crutches with an acute ankle sprain and the orthopedic surgeon said, “Well, there’s no fracture, but you’re in a boot and crutches for six weeks.” And then there’s no intervention in those six weeks. Six weeks comes, it’s time-based, and then they’re back on the field. And then a couple weeks

[11:18] later, they tear their ACL. And so, it’s not understanding the cascade of prior injury. It’s not understanding the cascade of what needs to happen in those weeks of recovery that really puts our athletes in a really dangerous situation. And so that’s my cry and my credence is to try to just get providers to understand that there’s things that we can do — and parents for that matter — things that we can do within those first couple weeks that, yes, it’s speeding up the timeline, but it’s also making sure that the athlete is in the best possible scenario to come back on the field safely and

[11:48] effectively. And I think that that’s my process is just like answering those questions and then brutal honesty. That’s the other thing that I will make my claim on. If you ask any of my patients, my athletes, they’ll say he was very honest with me. So, we learned something called informed consent when we’re in school. But then when we get into practice, the first thing that goes out the door is informed consent. No matter where you’re at. And informed consent means you need to present what’s the diagnosis, what are the possibilities, what are the downstream

[12:18] effects of that, what the intervention can do and can’t do, and then let the patient decide what’s next. Right? I’ve had some athletes and parents just say, “We’re just not up for that.” Totally fine. If you don’t want to, that’s totally fine. Here’s my suggestion. If you don’t want to do any treatment, then here’s what I suggest you do going forward. But I think that that missing step of brutal honesty with your patients and with your athletes is a really important step. Kathy: Yeah, it’s especially in high school athletics — the parents, the coaches, the kid wants to get back so

[12:50] badly and it’s so hard as a healthcare provider to be like, you know, this is just not safe yet. You know, it’s heartbreaking because we all want to get them back quick. Jason: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, and I think something that people should know about Taylor, excuse me, is that Taylor’s had an opportunity to work with some world-class people when it comes to the art of assessment. And so there might be somebody who’s listening, they’re like, “Okay, assessment.”

[13:23] Nobody says that because that’s so difficult. That’s right. Yeah, I think I actually just heard myself saying it, but yeah, Taylor’s had a chance to work with some world-class people when it comes to assessing these types of things. And, you know, you’ve been practicing almost 10 years, which to me that’s like a baby. Kathy’s over 10 years, so no longer a baby. But can you tell us about like maybe where you’ve learned some of these assessment skills? What’s been most

[13:55] valuable to you in terms of what you use every day? Taylor: Yeah, no, that’s a great question. So I already talked to you about my biggest mentor is Brett Winchester, and so we taught courses all over the world and then we had a podcast that was a traveling podcast and so I got Jason: We love podcasts. We love them. Taylor: Yeah, exactly. some of the most famous orthopedic surgeons in the world, and hearing their stories and other amazing athletic trainers. I’ve been in training rooms and stuff like that, and I want to tell you that, oh, if you just take this course or if you talk to this person then you’re going to

[14:25] be good, but honestly a lot of it is just seeing more patients. Like it’s hard to really realize — like a dislocated shoulder, you know, they teach you how to relocate a shoulder in school, but until you actually feel it and do it for yourself it’s really hard to kind of grasp that. Until you see that first acute ankle sprain, it’s hard to know what to do. And so I think for me that’s the biggest thing is I’ve watched so many amazing people — everyone from Stu McGill to Craig Leeson to Brett Winchester to Pavlo Koliage to

[14:56] James Andrews, like all these amazing names. Jason: Jason Young, Jason Young. Taylor: Absolutely. Not really. But, you know, I think that the thing that I really learned in sitting down and watching all these people is that a lot of them are doing the same thing. The thing that separates every single one of them is one, their confidence — not cockiness, confidence — but then also just their undeniable presence in the room. And so I think that if you can be a presence for these people, talk to them

[15:28] like a human being, explain things at a level that they understand, then you are so much better. And then the other thing too is just continual education and paying attention — paying attention to the little things. You know, like everyone in this room, we saw patients today and so it’s very common that a chiropractor or PT will just go through their day just punching widgets, like they’re doing the same thing over and over again. But if you take the time to really pay attention to tissue quality and what it feels like, and range of motion loss and a joint obstruction — all these

[15:58] little things — if you can pay attention more, then you can catch things at a much smaller level before they become bigger. And so I think that that’s the biggest thing that I really took away from all those people is that their assessment was very mundane, but it was very specific. So the more specific you can get on what you’re checking for, and the more you have a process, the better you are long term. Jason: Sweet. Yeah. So you brought up talking about like relocating a shoulder — remind me. So I was on the sideline

[16:30] for Corval’s high school football game. Yeah. And there was an athlete who dislocated his shoulder and the athletic trainer, she tried three times to get that sucker back in and she looks at me — I do not relocate shoulders — like, “Yeah, I mean, I can adjust the shoulder, but in terms of a dislocation, that’s a different story, right?” And she’s like, “Do you want to give it a try?”

Jason: I said, “No.”

Uh-huh. So she’s like, “Okay.” So I drove

[17:01] the kid to the hospital. Which they had to sedate him and do that. But, yeah. So I bring that up because some of the skills that you have are not just things that they teach in chiropractic school. And so tell us about how you became a high school athletic trainer and maybe — well, maybe share with us — I know you’ve told the story before, but that moment where you worked with a kid and you were like, “Holy crap, this is what I’m doing.”

Yeah. No, that’s a great question. So we had the contract with Troy

[17:32] Buchanan High School in Troy, and it’s actually the sixth largest high school in Missouri. And so what that means is we employed the ATC, or the athletic trainer, there. So I had a moment which Jason has kind of told — is that I was a little bit lost in my first six or eight months in practice. You know, I was seeing everything, but nothing was really lighting me up like I thought it would. Like, I was so excited to be a chiropractor and so excited to see patients, but you know, my regular run-of-the-mill low back pain, or my patients with spinal stenosis, or things like patellar tendinopathy — they were

[18:03] fun, but it wasn’t like, you know, shoot you up out of bed in the morning. And there was a moment where an athlete — it was her senior year — and they had just made the state championship game for basketball. She sprained her ankle at the end of the game and she showed up to my office and she said, “You know, I have to play in five days and I have this acute ankle sprain — like, you know, what can you do? Can you help me?” Right? The parents, the athlete, they were staring up at me. And I remember I had like this come-to-Jesus moment of like, “Oh my gosh, I think I can.” Like, I actually

[18:33] think I can help you. And so I did. I said, “Yes, we’ll see you every day this week.” Not knowing that they were going to be on board with it. “See you every day this week. We’ll do everything we can. I’ve got this cool taping technique that I learned that we can use for you. And we’ll see what happens.” And I remember I woke up the next morning and my wife even remarked, she’s like, “What is wrong with you? Like, are you okay?” I was like, “I am so pumped to see this female athlete.” And she goes, “Well, do you have other patients on your schedule?” I said, “Yeah, but that doesn’t really matter — like, at 3:00 she’s coming in and I’m so

[19:05] excited to see her.” And that was literally the turning point. So I treated her like crazy. She got out, she played, and I just remember thinking to myself like, “Oh my gosh, like that was so fulfilling and so exciting,” and the rest is history. And so I just started showing up at the high school where our trainer was, and early on — you know, it doesn’t matter what provider you are — everybody’s got a little territorial nature in them. And so he was a little territorial. Like, “Who’s this kid that smiles all the time and is excited to be in my training room?” And so I just sat back and watched, and I just said, “I’m

[19:35] just going to learn. I’m just going to try to be helpful if I can, but just befriend him. I just want to be a part of this. You know, if he sends me one patient, that’ll be worth it.” Yeah. And so I sat there and sat there and sat there. I showed up every time. Whenever he’d ask me to be there or there was a game, I’d be there, and I’d be there, and I’d be there. And then, you know, down the road he started asking me for help on the sideline, like, “Hey, can you check out this kid’s knee? I think it’s this, but will you kind of tell me?” And the rest is history, and I started doing it more and more. And then two other high schools contacted me and asked me

[20:06] if I could do similar things, and so, you know, at its peak I was working with three local high schools — everything from the seventh largest school in Missouri to literally one of the bottom five smallest high schools in Missouri. And I tell the story — when I would go there, they didn’t have anything. They didn’t have a trainer. They didn’t have anybody that called on their school. And so I remember the first time I showed up and I had a line of like 50 kids, and then the janitor was in the back of the line and the kindergarten teacher — and, like, I was like, “Oh my gosh.” But it taught me a really, really

[20:36] important lesson, because I was only there for two hours and I had to go through that many patients. But it taught me how good you can get with your assessment very quickly. So you could come to a conclusion — even though it might not be 100% right — but you can at least start down the track. And then what I would do is on my way home I would call every parent and I would say, “Hey, I saw Timmy today. I’m a chiropractor. This is what I do. I saw Timmy today. You know, this is what I think is going on. This is the

[21:07] therapy that I would suggest for him. I do this therapy in Troy. Here’s my office. I’d love to treat him if you’re interested, but otherwise if you want any more information or if I can help in any way, here’s my cell number.” And the rest is history. And surely but slowly — or, you know, shortly — they just started showing up on my schedule. I was like, “Holy crap, like this is kind of cool.” And then, you know, the thing that we always talk about with trainers — it doesn’t matter if you’re with a big team — like, sometimes you just don’t have enough reps. You know, if you only have 20 guys on your team, like it’s hard to get enough reps to see

[21:37] things over and over again. And so I was seeing things from three different high schools. Therefore, I had seen that two or three times. Like I knew — I know what that is. Like I can help with that. Like, no, no, no, don’t. Like I appreciate what you’re saying, but I think you’re off a little bit there. And so then it just got me better and better with confrontation of the athlete, the parent, the coach, the athletic director, and the rest is history. And so then my skills just started developing because I kept paying attention and I kept showing up and just more and more reps. So, if somebody’s interested in doing what you’ve done, like what’s

[22:10] some advice that you might give in terms of that communication piece? Because I know that in the sports medicine stuff that I’ve done, that’s been the key thing — is understanding where I fit on the team and what I bring to it, and like not overlapping on work and stuff like that. Like what’s advice that you might give to somebody on that communication, collaboration piece?

Jason: No, it’s huge. It’s a great question, Jason. And usually when someone says “great question,” it’s just because they’re buying time to get the answer right.

Kathy: Yeah. And then usually when somebody

[22:41] points that out, they’re trying to buy themselves some extra time. If you want to go get on the assault bike back there, you can for a little bit. Just come back to us after a few minutes.

My advice is — get good with confrontation. Not only that, like get good with confrontation because there’s going to be a point, like you know with your patients, like you have to have some —

Kathy: I’m always confronting them. Like, “Look at your spine.”

Jason: “Why haven’t you done your exercises? Why haven’t you done this?” Yeah.

Kathy: Yeah.

Jason: “Just look at you.”

Kathy: But also, just knowing

[23:12] your role and knowing your skills — I think that’s a really important thing. Like early on I did not have the skills to be in those situations. And so a lot of times I did step back and it’s like, “Dang, I wish I knew what to do at that point.” And then that’s what drove me to find more education and to ask questions and to reach out to people that have seen those things before. And you know, it’s just that constant pursuit of education and learning that is what drives you to be better. And so that’s my suggestion — just expose yourself to uncomfortable and maybe even

[23:42] scary situations. That way the more you see it, the less scary it is. You know, it’s just like showing up to a networking event for the first time — that first time you’ve got a little anxiety, you’ve got some jitters. But the more you do it, the easier it is. It’s just like a muscle. The more you work it out, the better it is. And so I think knowing your skills and being very comfortable with where you’re at — like, where do I fit? What am I really, really good at? If it’s manipulation or adjusting, that’s great. Like kids that have low back issues or things like

[24:12] that — that’s a great kind of niche that you can build within that sports medicine practice. If you’re not good with the shoulders, be honest about it. Tell that trainer, “Hey man, that’s just not my thing.”

Kathy: Be like, “Do you have a hip or something? Or maybe your mid-back is kind of sore, not your shoulder?”

Jason: Yeah.

Kathy: Knees are my —

Jason: Yeah. But also I think it’s important to know those limitations, and then if you want to be in that world, you’ve got to know it. So find more

[24:43] education, find more places where you can learn or be exposed to those things, and just be honest with yourself number one, and then number two, be honest with the world about where your limitations are, and people will be more than happy to help you. So

what was one of your — what’s one of your favorite places where you found more education?

Oh, it’s a good question, man. I am a —

Oh, there he goes. He did it again. Can you repeat the question?

Yeah, right. I did what you probably shouldn’t do and I just took everything under the sun. I mean, I’ve been to

[25:14] everything you can imagine. But kind of the lens that I look through movement is called DNS — Dynamic Neuromuscular Stabilization — out of the Prague School. So that to me is the way that I kind of look at all movement. And then the McKenzie Institute — or MDT — is really, really high level for me. And then as far as like sports medicine stuff, you can actually go to these big orthopedic hospitals — everything from the Mayo Clinic to out east — and they do free online trainings all the time. And so it’s mainly surgeons in

[25:44] there, but the surgeon’s talking about their technique, talking about the assessment, and so you can gain a lot of knowledge from them. And then also, if you have a good orthopedic surgeon in your area, find the PA — the surgeon’s usually too busy, you know, tuning up their Lambo —

Kathy: Exactly.

But the physician’s assistants are sideline and doing the diagnosis. And I’ve learned so much from

[26:16] the athletic trainers that have been doing it for a while. Find the PAs that are doing really good work. And you know, if anybody has specific questions, they’re more than welcome to reach out to me about that.

Jason: Yeah. So maybe we could focus a little bit on — let’s pretend that people listen to this podcast and let’s pretend that some of those people are high school athletes or parents of high school athletes. Like this is your chance to maybe give them some wisdom — what’s going to help an athlete to

[26:48] perform better, to be able to play all four years? Because I’ve got a couple of high school athletes and I’m learning that you don’t always get a full season because injuries happen. Like what are the most important things for these kids and their parents to understand about being a high school athlete?

So Kathy and I were actually talking about this before we pressed record, and I think the number one thing that I’ve learned is nutritional status. So my experience, just for my own body —

[27:19] like I had some massive nutritional deficiency. Jason: Yeah. There’s a lot of teenagers that are just like, “Oh, I turned this off.” Kathy: Yes. Exactly. Jason: Oh, I got to eat better. Oh, the only thing that would have been worse was if you would have told me to go to bed on that. Kathy: Put my phone away. Jason: That’s — I’m going to break down that confrontation. Jason, we’re going to punch down the wall. There we go. So, I mean, the more you look at sleep, I have a study — every time I sleep — that one night of uninterrupted, or interrupted, sleep, meaning you sleep for less than eight hours and maybe you

[27:50] don’t get enough REM or deep sleep, it reduces — they looked at males specifically — it reduces testosterone production by like 34%. Kathy: Whoa. So, what that means for a high school athlete is that when you’re in your formative years and testosterone is coursing through your veins, that’s part of the substrates that helps heal your body, right? It shuttles collagen to your tendons and to your ligaments and to your muscles, and it allows you to literally grow. But if we’re losing sleep or we’re not getting good enough sleep, then you’re behind the eight ball already. There’s no chance

[28:21] that your body can rebuild itself at night or during your recovery periods because you haven’t given it the right fuel to do it. Jason: Yes. I need my sons to rewind this part and listen to that again. Okay. Alston and Griffin — who I was told that I never say Alston’s name on this podcast. I talk about Griffin all the time, but Alston I always call my older son. Yes. But yeah. Kathy: Alston, his name’s Alston. Alston Young. Anyway, rewind that. Listen to it, boys. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Good. Okay. So, sorry to interrupt. Jason: Nutritional status is the other big piece. And so, one of the

[28:52] things when I started at Troy — we had horrible cramps in football. I mean, horrible cramps. Nothing will take an athlete out of a game quicker than a cramp. Kathy: Well, you can tell when they get them. It’s like — I can spot a cramp so easily. They look horrible. Parents are like, “Oh my gosh, what’s wrong? Oh, he’s got a cramp.” No, that looks so gross. What’s happening? Yeah, he’s got a cramp. Jason: It’s great. Kathy: Yeah. And really that comes down to a couple different things. Like, if you’re just smashing high-density carbohydrates the entire day, it’s so

[29:22] hard for your body to have enough fuel to shuttle the water to your tissues. And so what I did is I instituted — we bought them a ton of really good electrolytes. So, sorry — no Gatorade or Powerade, low sugar. Kathy: Electrolytes. That’s what plants crave, right? Jason: That’s right. Yeah, that’s right. Kathy: Did you catch the reference? Jason: That’s exactly — Kathy: Idiocracy. So, yes. And then I would carry around a bottle of really good sea salt, and when they weren’t looking on game days, I would

[29:52] dump a bunch of it into the water bottles, and the kids always were like, “Oh, this water tastes crappy.” I’m like, “Just drink it. I’m telling you.” But then also just getting on a good magnesium supplement, because magnesium — I always say if magnesium was a prescription drug, it’d be the number one prescribed drug on planet Earth, because it helps with everything. Helps with sleep, helps with muscle cramps, helps with recovery, all these other things. And so, like, those are very small things that we did without really attacking the nutritional deficiencies, but it’s a pretty good indicator that if you’re eating fast food a couple times a week, then you’re

[30:23] going to have issues on the field. Like, that’s just the reality. And then the other thing we did — it’s really cool — but the team before, for football specifically, before games, the parents would cook them this awesome meal beforehand. Kathy: And we’ve all been told to carbo-load before, right? No? Jason: Well, the biggest myth I can tell you about carbo-loading is that if you’re carbo-loading with very complex carbohydrates — pasta, high — that’s inflammatory foods like gluten and dairy and soy — then it’s so hard for your body to not only digest that. So, it’s

[30:53] requiring so many more electrolytes and proteins and things like that to break that tissue down, it’s so hard for them to get through the game without having issues. And so, to me, nutritional status is the number one thing. So, that’s the biggest thing. And then just looking for warning signs. You know, for me, and it sounds ridiculous, but it is very, very common — a loss of range of motion is one of the biggest predictors of injuries that I can tell you about. Whether we’re talking about growth plate injuries, whether we’re talking about massive ligament

[31:23] damage, things like that. So, having someone that’s looking at your athlete, especially if you’re wanting them to play year-round sports — which we talk about, which now youth sports is the fastest growing industry in the world, it’s like a multi-billion dollar industry here in the United States — so if you’re spending five, tens of thousands of dollars on your kids’ travel team, you have to invest in someone checking up on them. Whoever that is, I don’t care, but they should be doing a really good job of looking at their tissues, looking at their joints. Are they moving properly? All

[31:54] these things matter when it comes to putting them out, especially when it’s game seven of a weekend tournament that your kid has been practicing for five days and then played seven games. So, like, it’s not a matter of if it’s going to break down, it’s a matter of when. So, the other thing, too, is I always say — I always deal with the double D’s. And I’ll bleep myself, but dumb dads, right? Dumb blank dads. And the reason I say that is because so many times we’re living through our kids’ athletic

[32:24] career. Kathy: There’s another good study. Jason: You’re talking about me, but — Kathy: Yeah. Jason: I’m sorry. I was — I heard you say living through your kids’ athletic career and I was like, “Oh, that’s — yeah, that’s me.” Right. Kathy: Right. But — Jason: Therapist. Kathy: That’s right. They looked at Little League baseball players, and all they did was they tracked how many throws a kid had on a weekend tournament. And so it’s very common that in a weekend tournament they have these stipulations on the amount of pitches you throw. So you may get a

[32:54] hundred pitches for the entire weekend. But my thing that I always do is I just on my whiteboard I just write up. Okay, so your kid shows up to the ballpark for a weekend tournament on Friday. What’s the first thing they do? Well, they play catch to warm up. Perfect. How many throws do you think they threw? I don’t know, 30 or 40. Boom. So, I’ll put 30. Okay. Then they’re going to pitch that first five innings. Okay. How many pitches they throw? Well, they threw, you know, 75 pitches. All right. Well, there’s 75. Then what happens after they get pulled from pitching? Oh, well, they go play outfield because they have a great arm. Perfect. How many times do they throw the ball between innings and during the

[33:25] game? Well, there’s another 540. Okay. Well, you’re over a hundred throws before you even get past the first game. And then you’re going to do that five more times. Do you think that that’s a sustainable thing for your kid to do when their growth plates are still open? It hasn’t adapted to the tissue demand. Oh, by the way, you’re feeding them chicken nuggets between games. Like, these are all recipes for disaster. Like, this is the intervention that you have to have with these parents because they’re investing a ton of money and time into it. And I get that. And the last thing you want is to not play that tournament that you

[33:55] paid for. However, you’re going to spend way more money with me if you are doing this. So, like, right, you know, invest a little bit of time. Let’s be smart about the programming, smart about that kind of thing, and then hopefully we’ll be able to be a little bit safer.

Kathy: Awesome.

Jason: So, I’ve talked about this before, but I helped coach the girls basketball team here at Corvallis High School.

Kathy: Go sports.

Jason: Let’s go Spartans.

Kathy: And I’ve always thought about this with high school athletes — we ask them to do so much now and they play year round and we don’t prepare their

[34:25] bodies for it. You know, my bias obviously is strength training and I think the other missing piece obviously is nutrition. And we had actually our good friend Stacy Kasanchuk come and talk to the girls high school team. She’s an RDN, a registered dietitian nutritionist.

Jason: She’s a veteran of the PTCH Podcast, a veteran. So she came and talked to the girls and I know that Coach Miller is going to be talking about

[34:56] nutrition throughout the season. And I think this brings up a really good idea that we need to have a team meeting with the parents and talk to them about that. That’s the key, right?

Kathy: Well, and I think that parents don’t get it sometimes too, because they’re like — well, first of all, going back to your DDS, right — your dads who remember, “Well, back in the ’80s, this is how we did it. You know, I had Dr. Pepper and I was trying to get all my calories in.” And one of the things that you brought up, you talked about like carb loading

[35:28] and fast food and things like that. And, you know, fast food is okay. The big problem with it is that it’s not nutrient-dense.

And so, you can — I mean, you can go through a drive-thru and you can get foods that are nutrient-dense. Like, go to Chick-fil-A, which I’m so happy we have one now. You can get that crunchy kale salad, you know, and that’s full of nutrients.

Jason: Or the grilled nuggets.

Kathy: Yes. Grilled nuggets.

Jason: The waffle fries, not so much, right? But hey,

Kathy: and so, sometimes when we — as

[36:00] part of the problem is, no offense because you’re a coach, but part of the problem is that it’s coaches that are giving the education on what to do. And a lot of it is based off of what their gym teacher told them in the ’80s.

Jason: In the ’80s.

Kathy: Yes. And so we know how destructive the ’80s — no, I’m just kidding. The ’80s were awesome.

Jason: Yeah, the ’80s were — and so, you know, I think that you’re both right in that if you — it’s a — I think one of the great things about high school sports is it isn’t just a responsibility, it’s an opportunity. Because what you do with

[36:32] a high school athlete can set the tone for literally the rest of their life.

Kathy: Yes.

Jason: And as we just discussed, whenever they start coaching kids, you know, maybe give them some good advice.

Kathy: They have good advice. Eat a carrot.

Jason: Well, it brings up a good point too, Kathy. Sorry to interrupt, but the strength training component — and the thing I see is that, you know, there are some amazing studies. Tim Hewett is one of the best ACL researchers, and he talks about the difference between male and female. And for me, people

[37:02] talk about, “Well, we don’t give enough resources to the female strength training stuff,” which I 100% agree with. But a lot of times we’re trying to match what we do with male strength training or male performance training to what females do, and the reality is that their bodies are very different.

Kathy: You’re speaking my language.

Jason: Different stages. Yeah. Different stages of puberty at different times. They have different hormones coursing through their body. They are a completely different organism in my eyes. Right. So, in turn, we’ve got to have different standards when it comes

[37:32] to strength training for females and males. That’s just the reality. And so, one of my really good friends, Jake Alec, is in Chicagoland and they’re in a very affluent school district. And so they actually pay him to program for all the teams in the school district.

Kathy: Wow.

Jason: And so him and I have had some amazing conversations about what it looks like — differences between, you know, females versus males when it comes to programming. And a lot of the times he’s not putting barbells on these girls’ backs. He’s using dumbbells. And

[38:02] the reality is that you can’t fit a square peg into a round hole. Like, that’s just the reality. And so for me, it’s difficult to get the weights correct. Number one, you’re relying on the coach to pick those, or the athlete who has no idea about what their body feels like. Or two, you’re asking them to do these huge compound movements that are more destructive than anything. And so, that is a huge concern of mine. That’s why you were joking about my Tonal. The reason I love my Tonal is it

[38:33] goes up by one pound. So, you can change the weight one pound at a time. And so the thing I say all the time is like how many times do you go to the gym, you grab a 15 pound dumbbell and it’s too light, but you grab a 20 pound dumbbell and it’s too heavy. Yeah. Well, that is very very apparent the lower the weight is. Kathy: Yeah. Muscles only work in increments of five. Jason: I know, that’s it, right? Yeah. So, and in reality, like we — it’s just there’s this giant disconnection between strength training and our populations of people that we’re trying to use it for. So, this is a big concern. And then I

[39:05] mean if we really really want to get crazy, I have a huge functional medicine background and that’s usually what I spend most of my time doing now. Female hormones are a big topic of conversation. And so like they’ve even looked at it — depending on where your athlete is at in their cycle, they’re more likely to tear their ACL. That’s a hallmark study. So now you have people that are saying, “Well, why don’t we just use hormone suppressants with our female athletes and attempt to protect them against ACL tears?” which is absolutely — I mean, that is insanity

[39:36] like insanity. But it is coming. You just watch — like the number one of the most prescribed drugs when it comes to, you know, 12 to 18 year old females is birth control. Birth control has all sorts of issues downstream that we don’t have to get into right now, but if that’s a consideration, or your doctor or your PT or your coach or whoever your chiro is suggesting it — you need to run away. Like, there are so many other things we can do protectively rather than give our girls hormone suppressants that are going to mess up their chances of

[40:06] fertility long term. So that’s my soap box. Kathy: Yeah. Wow. Okay. One last question. Jason: No, we’re good. Kathy: Okay. How do we talk to the high school athletes — female — and get them to eat? Because the stigma is — Jason: Yeah. Kathy: You know, we beg them as coaches, please. Jason: Yeah. We’ve got to use slogans like “strong is the new skinny.” Kathy: Yes. Jason: Yeah. How do we get them to eat more calories? You brought up the biggest — I cannot

[40:36] tell you how important that is. We live in a society that perpetuates not eating, basically. And really it starts at home. Like, the parents are busy people. They don’t have time to cook. Therefore, you’re eating out, you know, two meals a day. And then that gets carried down. Like, everybody says, “Oh, my, you know, my genetics are bad.” Well, no. Your genetics are your habits and your family’s habits. So if your family has crappy habits, you’re going to have those same habits. Totally. So you’ve got to break the criteria there. And

[41:06] how I do that — to answer your question directly, Kathy — is to educate them on how your body works. So, you know, how many times have I been told that I have a good metabolism because I’m skinny. Well, that’s true. I was blessed with that. However, our metabolism works by: the more fuel you give it, the faster it burns. So you’re burning — let’s just say on an average person, let’s just say myself — just to keep my brain functioning, I need 1,600 to 1,700 calories a

[41:36] day. And that’s not — we won’t even talk about what those calories are made of — but that’s just to make sure that my brain can still function. So then you’re burning some upwards — if we take a high school athlete — up to 3,000 calories a day. So if you think by only eating, you know, 1,000 or 1,500 calories in a day, then you’re going to get skinnier, that’s completely off. Your body’s going to have an absolute fight-or-flight response to it. It’s going to slow down your metabolism. It’s going to slow down your recovery of the muscles, joints, ligaments, tendons. Therefore, you’re at higher risk for

[42:07] injury. Versus, if you actually fed your body the fuel it needed, you’re not going to gain weight. In fact, you’re actually going to put on muscle, which is amazing. And I promise all the female athletes that are listening, you’re not going to get bulky. Nobody gets bulky by that. It’s the craziest thing — everybody says, “Well, I don’t want to lift weights ‘cause I don’t want to get —” Kathy: I mean, there’s enough teenage boys out there that aren’t getting bulky, right? And so, Jason: well, and so I think to put in context what you just said, because I think it’s really important —

[42:37] the thing that you said that’s really important is habits. Because people talk about calories in, calories out, and usually when we talk about it, we talk about it in the context of a day, right? I’m eating 3,000 calories today. I’m burning this many calories that day. One day does not matter. It doesn’t. Because you don’t have a day where you’ve exercised — well, some people do. It’s like if you do a marathon — idiots. If you do a marathon, you’ll lose like seven,

[43:07] eight, nine pounds in a day, right? But most people aren’t having that. Most people are having normal days. And so your calories in, calories out is the accumulation of — think of if you’re going to do calories in, calories out, do it over a month, right? Kathy: Yeah. Jason: Or a couple months, because that’s what’s actually going to move the needle in terms of your goals. I think that where some of the dysfunction comes from is people start micromanaging this and they’re thinking about, oh, this one little meal or, you know, this day — what

[43:38] did I do? And oh shoot, I need to go for a run today because, you know, I didn’t — and that is like the recipe for neurosis. And so looking at these things more from a habit standpoint, because you get to who you are and where you are over an accumulation of days, not over like a few hours. Kathy: Good point. Otherwise I would be amazing. Jason: I would — I just lifted weights, I’m amazing. Kathy: It comes to the same point with load.

[44:08] Like if we just look at load — and I don’t necessarily mean like how much weight you put on your back, but just load in general. So, you know, if your kid’s practicing six days a week and you have one day of recovery, but that day of recovery they’re out playing, going crazy. Yeah. And they eat like crap. Like, your accumulation of your days equal your weeks equal your months equals your years. So the overall load is just like calories in, calories out. And so that’s why I have the same thing. I have the parents — let’s just take a bird’s eye view and just look at everything. Just rate your

[44:39] kids’ nutritional, you know, just habits on a scale of 1 to 10. Oh, they’re like a three. We go to, you know, we eat out all the time. Okay. And then what about their overall load in a week, in a month? Like how much are they actually doing? Well, they’re doing a lot. They’re doing a lot. I said, okay, you’re at a 10 and a three. So, like, do you see the difference here? Kathy: So, like seven. Did I get it right? You got it. Is that right? It was seven. There you go. Jason: Okay. So, but you can keep that load up. We can keep them involved, but now this has got to bridge the gap. Like, these have to get close to each other in order

[45:09] for your kid to not get hurt or you end up in my office more and more and more. Totally, man. That’s so good. I got one quick question and then we have to play a game because I know that’s the real reason you came was to play the game. So for a parent, because I know I’m having this conversation with one of my sons, what are parents supposed to look for to identify signs that a kid is maybe doing too much, right? They’re burned out,

[45:41] they’re overtraining. Sometimes they’re doing it because they really love the sport and they want to keep playing. They just want to do it the most. Other times it’s social pressure to do too much or whatever type of pressure. What are the things that parents can be looking for so that you can intervene for your child and help them to dial it back so they could have a really long healthy life of physical activity? Yeah. So for me it would be a couple

[46:11] things. I already said having someone check in with your kids is amazing. Someone else out of that — I would say if they’re asking you for some sort of NSAID, that’s a red flag. Okay? Like, hey, I have a game tonight, but I need some ibuprofen. Well, let’s slow down. Okay? We know that NSAIDs weaken tendons and ligaments. All right? So, that would be a good indicator. That would be huge. The other thing would be if their excitement to go is just dwindling, then that’s when questions should arise.

[46:42] I remember I was so pumped to go to practice and to go to games and stuff like that, but then I hit a point in football where I started to get a little bit burnt out. And so I had some great parents. They just asked me, “Do you want to keep doing this?” And the answer was yes. But I think it’s just important to have those conversations. Like that’s a healthy way to structure your family — to have difficult conversations like, “Hey, do you still love doing this?” You know, like, I know we’ve invested a lot of money in this, and things like that, and time, but you know, at any point we can pull the string — we just

[47:13] want you to be healthy and happy. And I think that’s difficult because a lot of times again we are spending thousands and thousands of dollars on our kids when it comes to athletics, but you’ve got to get that out of it and think about the kid as a human being. So that would be number two. And then number three, I think it would just be to listen to the way they talk, you know, like are they falling asleep at the dinner table? Are their grades slipping? Like all of these little things mount up into one kind of issue. And so the other

[47:43] thing that is really really common now is kids struggling with anxiety. Like I cannot tell you how many kids are being prescribed antidepressants and anti-anxiety medications, and getting to the root cause of that I think is a really important thing. So if your kid is not getting excited to go to events, not excited to go to sporting events, or they’re overzealous and maybe they’re asking you for ibuprofen or they’re asking you to ice their knees at night — little things like that can always raise the question of, hey, maybe we need

[48:14] to get this checked out. And I think, you know, what’s the old saying? Like, an ounce of prevention is worth everything. So, the more that you can just have check-ins mentally, physically, emotionally with these athletes, the better idea you’re going to have of whether or not they’re getting to that burnout phase or they’re getting to that stretch where injury is not necessarily happening, but it’s imminent. And so I think that would be a good little framework for everybody. Love it, man. Such good advice. Yeah. All right. I guess now I’ve got to have conversations with my kids. Dang it.

[48:44] Sorry. Yeah, I know. It’s hard. It is hard. And I can’t tell you how many times parents would text me like, “Hey, we’re coming in today. I think this is an issue. Can you talk to him about this?” And it’s different when it’s not coming from mom and dad. Yeah. And it’s tough for me because sometimes, geez, it’s so frustrating. Like the kids will go to my wife and they’re like, man, mom, my shoulder really hurts. She’s like, “You know who your

[49:14] dad is?” Like, “Yeah.” Oh, that’s a good point. They just don’t even freaking think about it, right? They’re like, “Oh, okay.” That clown. Yeah. And then sometimes it’s like, “When is my dad talking to me as a healthcare provider? When is he just talking to me as dad?” All I hear is blah blah blah. Honestly, Jason, with that, I can’t tell you how many other chiropractors and health professionals in my community would bring their kids to me for that reason, you know. And so I think that’s another important — Jason: I’m putting my boys on a plane. We’re

[49:44] going to be there next week — to Lincoln. We’ll do Zooms. We’ll do Zooms. It’ll be fine. But I think that’s where your network really comes in. And I think the last thing I didn’t say would be to find a trusted provider. Yeah. It doesn’t matter their credentials. If you’ve seen people in your area that have had good success and, you know, is a straight shooter, trust them. And the other thing too is you know it’s a good provider if they’re willing to get second opinions. I can’t tell you how many times I would take X-rays, MRIs,

[50:16] findings and I would send them to the PA’s or I would send them to the radiologists or I would ask my colleagues about them and I would tell the patients I’m doing that. I would just literally again, brutal honesty — like, hey, I think this is what’s going on but I have a little bit of doubt. Do you mind if I consult with another provider just to get a second opinion? And every single time they’re like, “Oh my gosh, you can do that.” You know, like we’re so used to healthcare where everybody’s in their little box and nobody talks to everybody. And to finally have someone that’s willing to have conversations outside of it. Boom. And then that way I

[50:46] never have people go outside of me. Like the worst thing you could do as a provider is have someone — you set up a plan and then the next thing you know they’re with some other provider who’s doing something completely different. And that may be a good plan too, but consistency is important. It really is. And so, you know, if you can find someone that you trust, then trust them and listen to what they’re saying.

Kathy: Bingo. Love it.

Jason: All right. You ready for a game, sir?

Kathy: Can’t wait.

Jason: Okay. Well, we’ll see how you do here. This brings us back to our very

[51:16] first episode, I think. When? No. Was it our very first? Yeah. Yeah. Because Kathy pulled this one on me.

Kathy: Oh, yeah.

Jason: And it stung ever since. Like, I’m still haunted by the level of decision-making I have to make. Okay. This is a classic game of start, bench, cut. All right. So we’re going to give you three options. You have to start one, bench one, and you have to cut one. Okay. Does that make sense?

Kathy: Yeah. Start. Okay. Good. All right. Cool. All right. Recovery tools. Ice

[51:48] bath, massage gun, foam roller.

Kathy: So, ice, massage gun, and foam roller.

Jason: Yep.

Kathy: Oh, this is tough.

Jason: We’re talking ice baths, correct? Not ice on the skin.

Kathy: Ice bath.

Jason: I hate ice on the skin.

Kathy: Yeah, I knew that you would cut that one.

Jason: Mm-hmm. We’re talking ice bath.

Kathy: Yeah, I’m gonna say ice bath. I’m going to start — I’m going to

[52:21] cut the massage gun and I’m going to bench the foam roller.

Jason: Okay. All right. Very good. The reason I like ice baths is that there is systemic inflammatory decrease with that and it also builds resilience within our mind. So I love ice baths personally. I hate it for acute injuries, but I do like it.

Kathy: I got to get into what I call Viking mode. If I’m going to take an ice bath or a cold shower, it’s like I got to dig into my deep Scandinavian roots and just like — yeah. Because look at me.

[52:53] Look at you.

Kathy: I’m Thor.

Jason: Yeah. The reason I — straight from the skin — the reason I cut massage guns is they can be an unbelievable tool, but I see people overuse them every day.

Kathy: Come on.

Jason: Yeah.

Kathy: Oh my gosh. And so it’s just like anything — a tool is really good. Like if you put a hammer in a carpenter’s hand, it’s unbelievable. You put a hammer in my hand, I’m putting holes in things. So, you know, the tool is only as good as the person using it. And the foam roller could be a murder weapon.

Jason: Yes.

[53:23] That’s right. That’s right. The foam roller to me is a little bit less — you can do less harm, and if it’s used correctly, like I love it for joint mobilization and spine mobilization and stuff like that. So that’s it.

Kathy: Okay, sideline snacks. We got orange slices, goldfish, or uncrustables.

Jason: All right. Well, I’m definitely starting orange slices.

Kathy: Okay. Oh, this hurts my soul to

[53:53] have to pick here.

Jason: I would cut both of them, to be honest with you.

Kathy: Oh, uncrustables.

Jason: Yes. The reason — uncrustables — we say that peanut butter is a good source of protein and that is just absolutely false.

Kathy: What?

Jason: Proteins come from legumes. The majority of people have some sort of sensitivity to peanuts, and it’s a mess — plus the bread around it. But I would pick uncrustables. So I’ll bench uncrustables and then I’m going to cut the goldfish.

Kathy: Okay.

Jason: Goldfish has basically no nutritional benefits.

Kathy: I love the fishes because they’re so delicious.

[54:23] They are delicious. That’s right. Hey, one of the things on that — with wheat — you are probably seeing, especially as providers, that there is like an epidemic of kids with loose connective tissue.

Jason: I don’t know if you guys are seeing that. If you’re not, you’re going to start. And I don’t know what the reason specifically is, but there’s actually some pretty good correlations between people with Ehlers-Danlos — which is like the end-point, you know, perspective of loose connective tissue — and celiac disease or gluten

Kathy: allergies. So I don’t

[54:53] know what the reason is, but I saw it so much in the high school athletes — I saw a lot of them had loose connective tissue, and if we test them for celiac disease with a blood serum test, you will find celiac disease in like 40% of them, I would say. And so that’s why I don’t like those snacks. The orange slices — there’s not going to be an allergic reaction, or you’re not going to have any underlying inflammatory response. I have a response to orange slices because when my kids were playing AYSO soccer, they used to make us cut up like a gallon or two gallons of orange slices. So I get PTSD. All right, how about this one? Baseball legends. Ready? Ken Griffey Jr.,

[55:25] Shohei Ohtani, Barry Bonds.

Jason: Pre or post steroids for Bonds?

Kathy: Oh —

Jason: Zing.

Kathy: That’s kind of giving your answer, isn’t it? I don’t know. Post-steroid Barry Bonds was pretty dope. I mean, that guy was hitting home runs all the time.

Jason: Hey, I’m all in favor of a league that’s all steroids because I think that’d be made for TV. That would be unbelievable.

Kathy: And you know, the thing is, you got so many guys that are juicing anyway. And it’s not all that there is to hitting a home run.

Jason: No, there’s — look at the guy.

Kathy: He was still a good hitter before he went on steroids.

Jason: Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. But Ken Griffey Jr., Shohei Ohtani, Barry Bonds.

Kathy: I’m gonna start Ohtani.

Jason: Okay.

Kathy: I think what he did this year in the playoffs — it was the best game ever played. He threw six unhittable —

[56:27] then he hit three home runs. That’s — nobody will ever do that again. He’s the modern day —

Jason: He’s the modern day Babe Ruth.

Kathy: Yeah, I agree. That’s all right.

Jason: Yeah. And then I — I’m a weird baseball guy. I love defense. And so Ken Griffey — he was the best hitter ever, but he was unbelievable in the field. So, I’ll bench Ohtani or Ken Griffey and then I’ll cut Barry Bonds. So,

Kathy: even though I think Barry Bonds should still be in the Hall of Fame, but —

Jason: I agree with you. I agree with you.

Kathy: We don’t know how many of those guys

[56:57] who were in the Hall of Fame were cheating.

Jason: This is true. So, that’s the thing.

Kathy: If they’re good, they probably were cheating. So, all right. I’m going to give you two more. Okay. And then —

Jason: these are fun, actually. I like it.

Kathy: Yeah. So, we’re going to do youth athlete bad habits.

Jason: No warm-up,

Kathy: no sleep, or pre-workout at 7:00 a.m.

Jason: Oh, you got to start one of those.

Kathy: Yeah.

Jason: Actually, you know what? We’re going to

[57:27] switch out the pre-workout at 7 a.m. We’re going to say chicken nuggets.

Kathy: Nuggets.

Jason: Nuggets. So, no warm-up, no sleep, or chicken nuggets —

Kathy: on the pre-workout. The line I use for my athletes every time is: if you need something to get you out of bed in the morning when you’re 16 years old to go work out, there’s something else that needs to happen. Other things — there’s an issue. I’m gonna — okay. So, wait. So, I got to pick my favorite one.

[57:59] So, I would rather someone not do a warm-up. So, I’m going to start warm-up. No warm-up. I’m going to bench chicken nuggets and I’m going to cut no sleep.

Kathy: All right.

Jason: I have a hot take on warm-ups. Are you ready for this?

Kathy: Yes. Let’s have it.

Jason: I think specific warm-ups are kind of a waste of time.

Kathy: Mm-hm.

Jason: Okay.

Kathy: What do you mean by —

Jason: I think a cardiovascular warm-up is more important than a specific warm-up.

Kathy: So, you’re talking — let’s just get moving, like go for a run, do some

[58:29] jumping jacks, that kind of warm-up.

Jason: Exactly. Because we want to get specific on our warm-ups, which — I understand the theory and I might get some hate on that, but I think that we undervalue our nervous system’s ability to get excited and do the things that we want. Like, we are compensating machines as human beings. But sometimes we don’t get our nervous system ramped up enough to actually do the things that we want. And so, you know, like if you look at Rory McIlroy — he’s a good — I’m a big

[58:59] golf guy. I love Rory McIlroy. There’s a video where he talks about when he’s got to hit a really big pressure shot and he’s got to hit a big drive, we’ll say. One of the things he does is he actually kind of excites his nervous system. So, he almost gets himself going a little bit. One, it keeps the blood pumping so your brain can actually get the oxygen, but then two, it allows his body to kind of be within himself.

And so, you know, as long as you’re not having kids that are over-anxious after they do this — but getting the body moving, I think, is plenty for that. Especially if it’s some sort of full-body warm-up,

[59:29] plyometrics or things along those lines, then I’m good with that. So, I’m good with that.

Kathy: Sweet. Love it.

Jason: Sleep, I think, is the most detrimental thing that you can do to your body, whether we’re talking high school athletes or you and I. Sleep is the number one thing that people mess up.

Kathy: Yep.

Jason: Yeah. Kathy was — Kathy’s like, “Are you not feeling well?” And I was like, “No, I didn’t sleep last night.”

Kathy: There you go.

Jason: Okay. Great. I’m gonna —

Kathy: All right. Oh gosh. Yeah, that was good. That was a good episode, huh?

Jason: All right, last one. Ready?

Kathy: This is an important one. Okay, maybe

[60:00] the most relevant of all of these. Condiments: mustard, mayo, or ranch.

Jason: What?

Kathy: Back in the day — before — I have a massive dairy allergy now, too. Back in the day, I put ranch on everything. I’m talking pizza. I’m talking chicken. Yeah, you name it. I put ranch on everything. But now in my old age, I love mustard. You give me a spicy brown mustard — oh. So, I’m going to start mustard. I’m going to bench mayo, and then

[60:30] I’m going to cut ranch. Mayo’s made with eggs and so I could still have that. So,

Jason: I think you got that one correct.

Kathy: Yeah, I love — oh, man. I love the Midwest.

Jason: I love hot dogs. That’s my guilty pleasure. Love hot dogs. Love bratwurst.

Kathy: And the appropriate condiment for that is mustard. So if I lost mustard, who would I be? What would —

Jason: I always joke — in the Midwest, you know, in My Big Fat Greek Wedding, the dad used Windex on everything. Windex — in the Midwest, we use ranch for

[61:00] everything.

Kathy: Rub some ranch on it.

Jason: Yeah, that’s right. I probably lost like 12 patients just with that answer alone.

Kathy: When you’re on the sideline in Troy — was it like — I think I might have like torn my ACL. You’re like, I got this.

Jason: That brings up — you want to hear my favorite story of a sideline moment? Yeah. So, my last one here. I had a kid that was cramping. It was a horrible hot day. The whole team was cramping. I had run out of salt. So,

[61:31] we’re out of everything. And I’m like, “Oh my gosh, what am I going to do?” So, I started to think about — well, I need something with some high sodium in it, but with no sugar. So, I saw the concession stand. The first thing I thought of was, well, ketchup is too sugary. That’s not going to help. But mustard — no sugar in it,

Kathy: made with vinegar. It’s high in sodium.

Jason: So, I ran over — we’re at an away game — and so there’s a big long line for the concession stand. And I ran over and I just sneakily snagged this giant Costco-sized bottle of mustard.

[62:03] And I’m squirting it in guys’ mouths. They still joke about it with me. Yeah. I still get messages all the time — like, I still can’t eat mustard.

Kathy: Well, and I was talking with our high school trainer and she said that it’s kind of the sourness that helps too. It’s not just the — yeah. Same with pickles. So, she has Warheads in her kit, and so if a kid gets cramps,

Jason: you’re getting a Warhead. Yeah. And so

[62:33] Jason: You got one kid — sourness comes from sodium. It’s really, really high salt. It’s really concentrated salt. I got a little suspicious where there’s one kid who never plays and he’s getting cramps all the time. “Oh my — oh my hamstring, my eye. Yeah. Give me some more.” He’s got some more, you know. Okay, I’m fine.

Kathy: I’m good.

Jason: Shoot.

Taylor: All right. So, speaking of being good. So, first of all, thank you so much for coming. This was like —

Jason: Excellent.

Taylor: This is the easiest podcast we’ve ever done. We just like hit play. We hit play on the Premier —

Jason: And yeah, there we go. We just hit the

[63:04] Premier button. There we go. No, really appreciate you coming. This was so informational. I’m going to — we’re going to sit around the fireplace and we’re going to play this episode with my sons.

Taylor: Yeah, I think that’s love.

Kathy: Takehomes. Lean into the confrontation. Love that line.

Jason: Yeah.

Kathy: I’m going to be looking for more of those signs of burnout, not just in my own kids, but also some of the high school athletes that I

[63:35] work with as well, because I think that’s really important to spot.

Jason: So, Taylor, if people want to get a hold of you, what’s a good way for folks to get in touch?

Taylor: Yeah. So, my website is Premier Health and Performance, or premierhealth.com. And, part of my —

Jason: Part of my obsession —

Taylor: We’ll put this in the show notes, too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so I do — I do virtual consults as well, you know, especially I do a lot with other providers, too, if they have an athlete that they’re just struggling with. And so I love that I have people texting me

[64:05] all the time about stuff like that. But also for functional medicine. And so, you know, I really got into functional medicine trying to figure things out for myself, but also because I had so many athletes that were dealing with things. And so that’s really my passion. Like I said, I do virtual appointments. So, if anyone’s out there struggling, they can’t find a provider that’s listening to them or ordering the right tests, go to premierhealth.com. I have free discovery calls. If you guys even just have a question, book a discovery call. It’s the easiest way to get a hold of me and get 15 minutes of my time. And I’m always excited to do

[64:36] those, especially if it’s someone that’s a high school athlete or the parents that are just struggling with something like that. So, otherwise on Instagram, you can follow us at Premier Health — or excuse me — or Dr. Taylor Primer on —

Jason: Get him some mustard. Get him some mustard right now.

Taylor: Yeah, that’s right. Mustard. That’s all you need. Yeah. Dr. Taylor Primer and Premier Health is where we do everything. If you like my social media, it’s because of my wife. So, nothing good in my life has come from myself. It’s all my wife. So, I got that going for me.

[65:06] Jason: Good. Okay. Well, yeah, absolutely. Everybody, follow him on the gram and, if you want to get in touch with him, it’s premierhealth.com. And again, thank you so much to our guest, Dr. Taylor Primer.

Kathy: Jeez, this is great. This episode is gold. All right.

Taylor: I appreciate you guys having me on. You guys are doing amazing things. I think, as someone that’s had a podcast before, it’s hard to continue to do it. You know, it’s an effort, but the information you guys put out for parents

[65:37] and other providers and patients is amazing. So, keep up the good work. You guys are doing a great job.

Jason: Oh, we still don’t know what we’re doing, so it’s not hard yet. Yeah. So no, I think that there’s just one more item of business that we got to get to, Kathy, and that’s that there’s no “I” in PTCH.

Kathy: That’s right.

Jason: Yeah.

Kathy: Lovely. Beautiful.